DUST Search - [IDEA] LP Trading to increase the strength of FW.

Edgar Reinhart wrote:

I actually don't mind the idea that you have to run FW and Pubs to maintain a healthy balance sheet. To me that is quite a good part of the game, the fact that as a mercenary you have to not only control your fits, grind your SP and win your battles but balance your books too.

It's why I'd argue that even if Pub payout is increased it shouldn't be increased to the point that it enables everybody who can to run proto comfortably all the time even if they've earned to 'right' to.

I know that that's probably not a popular POV and I also know that the economy is pretty broken meaning that ISK sinks are pretty meaningless for the top 10-20-30% of players, butt I still like the dynamic.

It would be nice if running regular proto in pubs well allowed you to maintain ISK and a bad round is a big hit on ISK. Running Std/Adv in pubs should be comfortable and allow you to save up for running proto if you want in Pubs and FW. (A proto gk.0 fit is what 160,000 odd? and you should be able to loose, what, 2ish a round and maybe make a small profit on the battle?)

Obviously Proto in FW is a big ISK sink but maybe the other rewards (LP, salvage etc) need to be looked at to make the win, or rather just competing for the win generally more worthwhile. (A good FW battle is a great game mode but being on the end of a stomp is pretty much a worthless 15 mins of your game time). Maybe a reason to be LP rich rather than ISK rich is a good idea, or as you say allowing that accumulated LP to be converted into ISK through trade. Parity in the LP store is also important, but as I've said in the opening, the idea of having to run different contracts for different reasons is one I like. (I'd say FW is my favourite contract type too)

The only way you should be able to guarantee proto to be constantly available to you is being in a corp and running regular PC (this coming from someone who as you can see has never left his starter corp..... ideally raiding etc can be factored into this too to help people who aren't in PC corps to have a shot at the big bucks).

Sorry that became more about proto than FW / the LP store than intended..... and I'm happy to be in the minority on this. I'm fairly certain I played this game more masochistically than most. I've been playing for just over a year and didn't run anything apart from Starter Suits right up until I'd got my first 100,000LP for an APEX. I put my first Adv weapon on that APEX to try and grind the kills for the last event.


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deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 17:30:00 - [1] - Quote No matter how high you get in any given faction you still can not create a full fitting from only LP which is a killing factor for those who would like to play FW with any amount of loyalty. There is also no way for "mercenary" type players to accrue profits from running a faction besides the sale of APEX suits. This creates a very difficult balance and hurts those players thanks to it being such a high margin and a difficult sale. My proposal is this. Add 500 LP "packs" to each LP store which cost 500 LP and some amount of ISK. Make those packs instantly tradeable. Prices of LP would go up for losing factions giving incentive for mercenary based players to switch. Inversely prices of stomping factions LP would go down making it less profitable for them and forcing the players loyal to that faction to maintain the fight. Higher standing loyal players would earn more ISK when they want to trade and be able to generate full fits off of only running factional. Corporations built around FW would be able to quickly introduce and make new players able to sustain them self in FW. Faction loyal players would also have more incentive to seek out Eve assistance to keep their faction standings strong which the Eve players (slightly) want as well. In one big swoop we are able to reward loyalty, get the pendulum swinging like it is suppose to, make FW viable as the only game mode for high level players, and very slightly strengthen the bond to Eve. EDIT: This would also seriously increase the value of FW boosters making them a valuable commodity which CCP makes money off of and last I checked they could be obtained from the DK store meaning those FW based corps would have a reason to go into PC as a corp.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 17:55:00 - [2] - Quote Aidualc wrote: 4000 AUR = 30 days faction booster, at level 8-10 each win you earn 3,800 to 3,999 LP... you need only 26 victories to buy a Factional Apex... and you can sell it for 35 - 45M. And you said we need Factional LP packs to sell them to blueberries ? Level 8 - 10 is a pretty good grind and something many people will never see because they have no problem playing the opposing faction and making that grind even longer. Can you tell me one suit that you can make a full and viable fitting from only the LP in one faction? Also what about the people that only casually play on the weekends and are not going to see the ability to buy an apex suit to sell for quite some time thanks to their level 5 standings and only 5 - 6 matches a day? How are they suppose to support them self up to that level without either going back to pubs or by running ****** gear increasing their chance of loss and hurting their whole team?
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 18:59:00 - [3] - Quote Aidualc wrote: Running a full LP suit is the worst idea ever... you can buy a Dropsuit and weapon of LP, and the cost of ISK is more low that there similar one of ISK. federation - Logi GK.0 + federation scanner + isk modules/weapon = 128,000 ISK + 310 lp Logi GK only ISK modules and scanner = 240,000 ISK. I am the ones who buy 50 dropsuits federation logi GK.0 for 7,750 LP and 432.650 ISK ... if you spend only ISK in 50 proto GK.0 the price is 2,884,500 ISK ... Using LP is now a alternative and viable way to run dropsuits. But you need to fight for the factional you want... Sell packets to the blueberries doesn't help... That is because you are using a ton of ISK modules which this idea would seriously change for you as you would either be able to get some ISK per battle to offset those costs or exchange for other LP to get LP gear to fill those blanks. You are actually one of the people that benefit HUGE from this idea just in how it all flushes out. I do not know your fit but obviously the issue is you are not or are not able to fill your module slots with gear discounted by factional warfare. I only say this because your ISK and LP cost does not make sense to me based on the ratios I see from myself and others I know who run much more dominantly from the LP store. .
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.11.01 21:10:00 - [4] - Quote Devadander wrote: Love the idea. Now let me blow your mind... I made several 95-99% lp suits. EoM pays full isk price for lost fits (in the percentage: win/lose). Meaning: if you make full lp fits and run them in fw, you come up. That is correct that on a win you can come out ahead depending on your level with that faction. Personally I am level 10 in Amarr and having made very strict LP proto fits I can come out ahead every single time without boosters. The problem is as a lower level FW player there is zero supplemental income and zero reason and zero ability to continue fighting without going negative when the match looks lost. I have heard this directly from literally hundreds of players who play a few FW matches even as part of a full on q-sync and had to go back to pubs. I funded them out of my personal wallet over 400 million and from donations given to the cause of another few hundred million as well as watching other players combined giving out a few hundred million just to keep the fight going. There should be no reason for this to be the case. Any good player should be able to maintain them self at a higher level in FW without either running crappy gear, AFKing, or running back to pubs. Any player who puts up a terrible fight in FW should be sent back to pubs to hone their abilities further to be able to participate in the mid level aspect of this game and still make a profit. My idea does exactly this without promoting proto stomps against newbs who filled in on the losing side.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.11.02 03:22:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Would rather make Specialist gear trade-able and seed the market with basic modules. Specialist gear fills this same type of void as well but is much more niche making it difficult to really cash out on. It also does not make it easier to self sustain in FW.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.11.02 03:50:00 - [6] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Would rather make Specialist gear trade-able and seed the market with basic modules. Specialist gear fills this same type of void as well but is much more niche making it difficult to really cash out on. It also does not make it easier to self sustain in FW. It is, however, the only key differences between any of the factions. Offering parity outside of that kills the necessity for any other changes, imo. You are correct in that but it does not help the problem of balancing mercenary type players and faction loyal players. I will not argue that simply making some FW gear tradeable would fill this void in nearly the same fashion. I just feels like this way is more simple for new players as well as eliminates the need to make quite a few different items tradeable.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.11.02 13:43:00 - [7] - Quote Edgar Reinhart wrote: I actually don't mind the idea that you have to run FW and Pubs to maintain a healthy balance sheet. To me that is quite a good part of the game, the fact that as a mercenary you have to not only control your fits, grind your SP and win your battles but balance your books too. It's why I'd argue that even if Pub payout is increased it shouldn't be increased to the point that it enables everybody who can to run proto comfortably all the time even if they've earned to 'right' to. I know that that's probably not a popular POV and I also know that the economy is pretty broken meaning that ISK sinks are pretty meaningless for the top 10-20-30% of players, butt I still like the dynamic. It would be nice if running regular proto in pubs well allowed you to maintain ISK and a bad round is a big hit on ISK. Running Std/Adv in pubs should be comfortable and allow you to save up for running proto if you want in Pubs and FW. (A proto gk.0 fit is what 160,000 odd? and you should be able to loose, what, 2ish a round and maybe make a small profit on the battle?) Obviously Proto in FW is a big ISK sink but maybe the other rewards (LP, salvage etc) need to be looked at to make the win, or rather just competing for the win generally more worthwhile. (A good FW battle is a great game mode but being on the end of a stomp is pretty much a worthless 15 mins of your game time). Maybe a reason to be LP rich rather than ISK rich is a good idea, or as you say allowing that accumulated LP to be converted into ISK through trade. Parity in the LP store is also important, but as I've said in the opening, the idea of having to run different contracts for different reasons is one I like. (I'd say FW is my favourite contract type too) The only way you should be able to guarantee proto to be constantly available to you is being in a corp and running regular PC (this coming from someone who as you can see has never left his starter corp..... ideally raiding etc can be factored into this too to help people who aren't in PC corps to have a shot at the big bucks). Sorry that became more about proto than FW / the LP store than intended..... and I'm happy to be in the minority on this. I'm fairly certain I played this game more masochistically than most. I've been playing for just over a year and didn't run anything apart from Starter Suits right up until I'd got my first 100,000LP for an APEX. I put my first Adv weapon on that APEX to try and grind the kills for the last event. Wealthy players like myself currently do not have to go back to pubs at any point. Specifically when we have an 8 man squad and are losing next to nothing. The issue is that novice players who should be working their way over to FW as their transition point have no way to do it meaning that FW is just rich vets stomping broke newbs half the time thanks to the people who would generally be a challenge being over in pub contracts. I do not disagree with the idea of needing to balance your books but that idea is gone. It is nothing more than a mechanic that keeps on feeding kills to rich vets with little effort and makes FW absolutely no fun because the pendulum part of the pendulum war does not exist meaning everyone just ends up fighting for one side and nothing exciting ever happens. Then there is incentive to fight which is just plain miserable. How often to do you see half the team going sniping or never leave the redline on the losing faction side. If we had this LP trading the market would naturally push the price of losing factions LP higher giving a reason for people to actually attempt a win.